Audio Recordings

Part 1

Mrs. Brownlee (Evelyn Findlay before marriage).

Born:  5 October 1900 in Clarendon

As a little girl she lived down about a mile from McKee’s.  She was an only child.

Father:  William Findlay, farmer, born in Clarendon on 10 March (year uncertain).

Mother:  Mary Ann Hodgins, born in Clarendon, on 11 March  (year uncertain).

Evelyn’s mother’s mother was born in 1838 and died in 1922.  Evelyn’s mother’s father was born 

in 1831 and died in 1920.

Evelyn’s father’s mother was born in 1826 and died in 1896.  Evelyn’s father’s father was born in 1817 and died in 1899.

Mr. Clarence Thomas Brownlee

Born:  12 June 1895 in Clarendon and grew up 2.5 miles east of Shawville

Father:  Edward Thomas Brownlee, farmer

Mother:  Elizabeth Dale

Part 2

Clarence Brownlee had one brother, Gordon Brownlee, four years older, and no sisters.

Clarence’s father’s father was Edward Brownlee, who was born in 1840 and died in 1915.  Clarence’s mother’s father was Thomas Dale, of the Dales that lived in the tavern house in Shawville.

Mrs. Clarence Brownlee:  “I remember when I was a little girl my grandfather used to tell us he came from Tipperary, and three or four brothers came over together.  And that’s about all I can remember of the stories they used to tell us.” 

Interviewer:  “What did they do when they first came over?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Farming and clearing out bush.”

Interviewer:  “And where did they settle at that time?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Between the town line of Bristol and Clarendon.”

Interviewer:  “What are your earliest memories as a little girl?  Is there anything in particular which sticks out in your mind when you were at home?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “When I was first able to drive a horse.  That was sort of my hobby.  I loved horses.  When my parents first let me drive a horse that was one of my biggest thrills in life.  I was about eight years old.”

Interviewer:  “And had your father been teaching you, or did you just learn by watching him?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “I just learned by watching him, and then he helped me.  He was fond of horses, too.  But he had to be there, too.”

Interviewer:  “And could you tell me, Mr. Brownlee, what you remember from when you were a young lad?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, lots of things.  I think the best thrill we ever got was when we got the telephone in.”  

Interviewer:  “And how old would you be then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Maybe about twenty.”

Interviewer:  “What did people think at that time?  Were they pretty pleased by it?” 

Mr. Brownlee:  “They certainly were.  Hayeses had it in for I guess about six months ahead of us, and we used to go over there to talk.  It was quite a thrill.”

Interviewer:  “You mentioned you got the phone when you were about twenty years old, Mr. Brownlee.  Was that a big change in your house at the time?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Well, yes, it was hard to stay away from it!”  (He laughs.)

Interviewer:  “And a lot of listening?”

Mr. Brownlee: ” Oh, yes.  We didn’t mind; the neighbors didn’t mind listening at all.”

Interviewer:  “It was a nice neighborly thing.  My mother once said you always knew when anyone was sick or in trouble.  Everyone was together, a great feeling of friendship there.  How many were on the first phone line you had, Mr. Brownlee?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Eleven, I think.”

Interviewer:  “And there was a central in Shawville who placed the calls for you.”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes.”

Interviewer:  “Could you tell me, Mrs. Brownlee, about your early memories of church?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “We always attended the Anglican church in Shawville.  I remember us going as a little girl.  My mother found it hard to keep me quiet.  But I didn’t go to Sunday school there.  I went to Sunday school at the Wesleyan Methodist Hall they called it, just a piece up.  That’s where I had my Sunday school training.”

Part 3

Interviewer:  “So would you go to church and to Sunday school later?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, no.  We would go to church usually in the evening then.  And I’d go to this Sunday school mostly in the afternoon.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember anything then about getting ready for Sunday?  Did your mother clean up the house?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes, cleaned up the house.  And I had to be on my best behavior.”

Interviewer:  “Did she do any baking at all on Sunday?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, no.”

Interviewer:  “So she’d have everything ready?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she’d have everything ready Saturday night.”

Interviewer:  “And would your parents let you play outside on Sunday?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she always let us play.  My mother was a teacher, and she felt that, she was strict, but that a young person had to have their fun.”

Interviewer:  Would your parents just spend the day quietly in the house?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, usually.  Sometimes we had company.  We used to do a lot of visiting in those years.”

Interviewer:  “And it was pretty much the same in every family?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, pretty much the same.”  

Interviewer:  “Do you have any memories of the ministers at that time?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Mr. Seaman is I think the first one I remember. Archdeacon Naylor baptized me and was there, but I think Mr. Seaman was the first one I remember.”

Interviewer:  “What kind of man was he?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Very nice.  A very nice man.”

Interviewer:  “Was he here in Shawville very long?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, not too long.  Just a couple of years if I remember right”.

Interviewer:  “And do you remember your parents speaking about Archdeacon Naylor?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.  He was a wonderful man.  They spoke a great deal about him.”

Interviewer:  “Did they ever tell you any stories about him?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.  He was very good to people when they were in trouble or sick.  Very, very kind.”

Interviewer:  “And was he an old man when he retired?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Fairly, I think.  He was held in very high esteem in Shawville.”

Interviewer:  “Can you tell me, Mr. Brownlee, some of your early memories of the church?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Well, we had to go, if we wanted to go, at night.  For quite a few years we had to go in the morning to church.  That was our orders.  Sometimes it wasn’t just carried out that way.  That was the way it was laid down.”

Interviewer:  “And everybody would go together?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “No, they went very little to church.  My parents went very little to church.  But we went steady for quite a few years.”

Interviewer:  “And you belonged to the Anglican church?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes.”

Interviewer:  “Did you go to Sunday school when you were a boy?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “No.”

Interviewer:  “And is there any minister that you remember?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Well, I remember Mr. Naylor.  He was an awful nice man.”

Interviewer:  “Could you tell me, Mrs. Brownlee, about your early school days?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “I went first of all to Number Four School which is where Ronnie Draper’s house is built, on that property.  My first teacher was Gertrude McDowell.  She was a home girl, sister of Golden McDowell.  There were about twenty or twenty-five students, all grades.”

Interviewer:  “Did she allow the older students to help the younger ones?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she did.”

Interviewer:  “And who took care of the school?  Was that the teacher’s job?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, the neighbors who lived close by were caretakers of the school—the Drapers.”  

Interviewer:  “And were they paid to do that?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes.”

Interviewer:  “And there was no water in the school?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, someone would go every morning and carry a pail of water.”

Part 4

Interviewer:  “Do you remember any of your teachers being cross?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I remember one teacher who was quite cross, but I probably wasn’t behaving.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anyone using a birch rod on any of the children?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, I don’t remember anything like that.”

Interviewer:  “How far did you have to walk to school?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “About a mile.”

Interviewer:  “And that would be a very cold walk.  And you’d get all dressed up then.  And you’d wear extra stockings and take them off at school?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.”

Interviewer:  “And all the girls wore just dresses and skirts at that time?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, but we wore over-stockings, and, you know, a lot of heavy clothes, long coats at the same time.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember anything about any other schools in Shawville?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I started high school when I passed out of grade six.  I went to go to high school.  I went there until I was fifteen.”

Interviewer:  “And that was the old Academy building next to where the Anglican church is?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, I never went to it.  I went to the new school the year it was opened—Victoria Avenue School.  There was quite a number of classes.  There probably would be two classes in one room.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember any teacher or principal who was there?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I remember the Reverend McFarland was principal the year I started.  I can’t remember who was principal the year I quit.  I think it was a lady.  I’m not sure if it was a Miss James or not.  But my last teacher before I quit school was a Miss Dahms.  Lucy Dahms.”

Interviewer:  “Were most of the teachers local people or were they from out of town?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “The principal was always from out of town, but there were quite a few local teachers in the lower grades.”

Interviewer:  “And did most of them go into teaching from high school?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, I think most of them had to have their diploma unless they were just filling in, you know.”

Interviewer:  “For those who were from out of town, did they mostly live in private homes?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, mostly in private homes.”

Interviewer:  “Did many people at that time live in Pontiac House?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Some did, especially men, teachers that were boarding.  Mrs. Andrew Hodgins used to keep quite a number of the teachers.”

Interviewer:  “And she had a large house?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes.”

Interviewer:  “Could you tell me, Mr. Brownlee, where you went to school as a little boy?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Number Four.”

Interviewer:  “And what would be the first teacher you’d remember?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Mabel Armstrong.  She was a nice person.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember anything in particular about your lessons then?  Did you use slates or did you have writing books?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “We used slates.” 

Interviewer:  “And did everybody buy their own?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, you bought your own.”  

Interviewer:  “And how would you write on them?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “It was clay pencil you used.”

Interviewer:  “And you’d get one whenever you went to school and if you were lucky it would last?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.  That would last you quite a while.  You could rub it off.”

Part 5

Interviewer:  “And when you moved up Mrs. Brownlee mentioned you went to Number Five?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, I went in the wintertime over here.”

Interviewer:  “Did you help a lot on the farm at the same time though?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “In the summertime, and as soon as the busy time came in the spring.”

Interviewer:  “And were the school authorities strict then if you missed a day or a lot of time?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “No.”

Interviewer:  “And in the older grades, do you remember if there were just about as many girls as boys?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, about the same.”

Interviewer:  “Can you tell me, Mrs. Brownlee, if you notice any different attitude today toward girls getting an education as compared to when you were a young girl?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Well, yes.  I think they get a better chance now, and I think it’s wonderful.  I’m all for the modern ways, and I think it’s wonderful that the children and the young people are able to take part and be interested in everything the way they are.  I think it’s marvellous.”

Interviewer:  “Were the girls encouraged at that time to go into high school?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “By some families, if your family was interested in education.  I would have been educated.  My father died when I was young, and my mother wasn’t well, and being an only child I had to stay at home with her.  Well then, of course, I got behind and didn’t go back to school.  But she felt very badly about it.  I think it’s wonderful that people now have the advantages they have.” 

Interviewer:  “Can you tell me Mrs. Brownlee if you ever did any work outside the home?”

Mrs.  Brownlee:  “No, I never did.  I was married young, and I always helped with the farm work.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about Shawville in those early years?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “It was smaller then than it is now.  In the wintertime skating was our main sport.”

Interviewer:  “Did you have skates with blades?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes.  My first skates were ones you put on your boots and skated in the creek.  But then after the Shawville rink opened we used to come up, some of the young people around, and skate there, and I had the skates on my boots.”

Interviewer:  “About how old would you have been when the rink opened?”

Mrs. Brownlee:    “I think about thirteen.”

Interviewer:  “And that would have been pretty popular.”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes, wonderful.”

Interviewer:  “Where was that rink located, Mrs. Brownlee?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Right across from Mickey Hodgins’, eh?”

Interviewer:  “And was it a covered rink?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, yes, it was.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember who operated it?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Armon Dagg.  He’s the first one I remember.”

Interviewer:  “And did people have to pay to skate there?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes. You paid ten or fifteen cents.”

Interviewer:  “Was that very much back then?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “We thought it was.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember any other activities you took part in as a young girl?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, not only taking part in sports, but running races.  I loved to run.  I liked sports, period.”

Interviewer:  “Did they ever have many sports?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, only when they’d have a picnic or something.  Whenever you’d have a school picnic or something like that.  It was a big thrill to go to them.”

Interviewer:  “Was that about the biggest community event they’d have back then?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “As far back as I can remember it was.”

Interviewer:  “Can you tell me anything about what Shawville itself was like then, any stores you remember particularly?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Well, I remember the W.A. Hodgins store.  And there was one called John Shaw’s store, too; I remember it quite well.  And when I went to Shawville School there was a place run by the Miss Wilsons, and we called it an ice cream parlour.”

Interviewer:  “What was that like inside?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “It was very nice.  They had ice cream and candy.  It was where the new W.A. Hodgins part of the store is across there now.”

Interviewer:  “Where the Shawville Plaza is?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, it was where the menswear was.” 

Part 6

Interviewer:  “Can you remember anything in particular about the W.A. Hodgins store or the James Shaw store?”

Mrs. Brownlee:   “Well, it was a grocery and dry goods combined.   One side was groceries, and the other side was, we called it ‘dry goods’ then.”

Interviewer:  “Dry goods would be hardware today.”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I guess so.”

Interviewer:  “What would be in a dry goods store?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “As I can remember back, they would have clothing of a certain kind, you know, menswear and mens’ trousers.”

Interviewer:  “And did they ever have anything like nails and hammers and tools?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “I think so.  Not so much as they had in this John Shaw store; they had quite a quantity of hardware.  It was mostly a hardware store.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything particular about John Shaw?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, I just remember where it was.  I can’t remember who worked in it besides the man himself, the owner.”

Interviewer:  “And the W.A. Hodgins store, did they have many clerks?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, as long as I can remember they had quite a few clerks.  Five or six anyway.  And Mr. Hodgins was there all the time.”

Interviewer:  “How long did Mr. Edward Hodgins remain around the store?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Well, I can’t remember too much about him.”  

Interviewer:  “I remember reading in the old Equities that he retired about 1903.”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “But I can’t remember anything about him.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about George Caters who drew the water?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I can remember him just vaguely, with his horse and cart and the water, but that’s just about it.”

Interviewer:  “And would you know anything about the Russell House?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Well, I can remember it, yes.  When I was going to church and school I can remember passing by it.”

Interviewer:  “And the Pontiac House opened later than the Russell House?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes.  The first Pontiac House was burned.  Because when I was a girl after I quit school I took music lessons from my music teacher at the Pontiac House that was burned.  I remember it quite well.”

Interviewer:  “And it was considered quite a grand hotel.”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, a very well-kept place.  It was wonderful.  Very strict.”

Interviewer:  “Do you have any memory of the first Shawville Fair you attended, Mrs. Brownlee?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “I can’t remember too much about them.  I remember being interested in the horses and cattle.  And the first ride I ever had on a merry-go-round was at the Shawville Fair.  That was a thrill.”

Interviewer:  “At what age did you take up farming, Mr. Brownlee?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “When I quit school.  Maybe fourteen.”

Interviewer:  “And did you help your father at that time?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes.”  

Interviewer:  “Are you living on the farm your father bought then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes.  As I grew up I took it over.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about Shawville in the early days?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “I remember the big fire.  It was an awful fire.  My father was down at the Fair at the time and us young lads went out.  We thought it was quite a big thrill going out to see the fire.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember any stores from that time?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “I remember the G.F. Hodgins store.  It was a general store.  He kept most everything.  And John Shaw’s.  He had the hardware store.”  

Interviewer:  “And do you remember George Caters?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, and his horse.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about the Russell House?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “It was a fairly big hotel.  It wasn’t high but pretty big.  It used to be filled up pretty well sometimes.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember Mr. McGuire and his long beard?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes.  He wasn’t there very long after I grew up.”

Part 7

Interviewer:  “When you were a young man, Mr. Brownlee, do you remember any of the activities you used to go to, like box socials or skating?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “I always liked to go to box socials.  That was one thing I enjoyed.  There were quite a lot every spring.  There’d be probably five or six.”

Interviewer:  “And at a box social as I understand the girls brought a lunch in a box, and it was auctioned off, and whoever bought the box got to eat the lunch with the girl.”

Mr. Brownlee:  “And you were supposed to take her home, too.” (Laughs.)  “Sometimes we did, and sometimes we didn’t, depending on the young woman.”

Interviewer:  “And did the young people and the older people attend those?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.  They’d have fancier boxes than the girls would have.  They all put up pretty good boxes.”

Interviewer:  “Were there any dances back then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.”

Interviewer:  “Did some people still frown on dancing at that time?” 

Mr. Brownlee:  “No.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember people about town being very strict about dancing, for one thing, or about the use of alcohol?” 

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, they were more stricter about liquor than they were about dancing.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember any of the Temperance committees?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.”

Interviewer:  “And would a lot of people around the countryside belong?”  

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, quite a few.”

Interviewer:  “And how long were the Temperance societies strong?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “They lasted for quite a while.  They must have gone on about five or six years.  They used to meet I think it was every two weeks.”

Interviewer:  “Mrs. Brownlee, do you remember anything about the Temperance societies?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No.  We didn’t have any down in our area.”

Interviewer:  “Could you tell me anything about any of the Orange Lodges then?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes.  There used to be an Orange Lodge that used to meet at what they called Knox’s Hall.  The hall is still there.  And I used to be invited with some of the girls to go to their supper on the fifth of November.  An annual supper the Orangemen celebrated on the fifth of November, a special day for the Orangemen.”

Interviewer:  “And a lot of people belonged to the Lodges?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, there were great numbers of people belonged in that time.  But I never joined, and my father wasn’t an Orangeman.  And my mother and father always went to the picnics if they were able.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about your home as a child?  Was that the home where your mother’s and father’s family had lived in?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, my father bought the place.  He lived there as a bachelor for a while until they were married.  He bought it from Bartons I think, but I’m not sure.”

Interviewer:  “And can you tell me anything about the house you live in now?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “It was built in 1909.”

Interviewer:  “Where did the Brownlees live before?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “The house they lived in before was burned.  The old one was the original house on the property.  I never saw it, but they tell me that.  This one was built in about 1909.”

Interviewer:  “Could you tell me anything about the older house, Mr. Brownlee?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Well, it was an older style house.  And there was a woodshed.”

Interviewer:  “And how did the house burn?  Did the stove catch fire?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “The chimney.”

Interviewer:  “And was there any help in those days other than the neighbors?  There’d be no fire brigade then.”

Mr. Brownlee:  “They never heard it.  It burnt about ten or eleven o’clock.  My brother was teaching school at the time.  And he came home on a Friday night and they put on a fire and the house started…” [The tape breaks off here.]

Shawville Fair

Mr. Brownlee:  “It was pretty cold there at night at that time.  We used to have them [the cattle] tied up against the railroad fence there.  There weren’t any barns then.  Only for the sheep and the pigs.  They were housed in barns.  But there were no barns for the cattle.  We had to tie them up to the fence.”

Interviewer:  “And about how many cattle would your father show at the Fair?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “We were showin’ about ten or twelve.”

Interviewer:  “What else did they have at the Fair?  You mentioned poultry.”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, they used to have a lot more poultry then than what they have today I think.  An awful lot more pigs and sheep than today.  Not as many horses or cattle then as what there is today.”

Interviewer:  “Did they have any horse shows at the Fair, as they have now?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, they had fairly good horse shows, but not as many as what there is today.  Any horse saddled was raced on the big track.  They had a race on the big track every year.  It was quite a thrill to watch that.  They had the English saddles, and some of them barebacked.  I think one race was two rounds about the track, two heats.  There’d be four or five at the start, but there wouldn’t be that many at the end.  There’d only be about two or three at the finish.”

Interviewer:  “Were there many big horses shown in those days?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “No.  They were mostly just for work, and they weren’t dressed up then the way they are today.”

Interviewer:  “Did you see many of the hackneys then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Not so many.  It would be more in the cities, and they never brought up horses from the city at all.  It was just the farm horses.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember any of the rides at the Fair, Mr. Brownlee?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes.  I used to go on some of them.  The kids would go on them as long as the money would last.  Money wouldn’t last so long then; it wasn’t so plentiful as it is today.  And there were booths selling things.”

Interviewer:  “And were there any step-dancing contests?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Not at the Fair.  They would have those more at picnics and places like that.”

Interviewer:  “Do you have any memories of the railway at that time?  Did you travel on it much as a young man?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “I never travelled on it.  I remember it from early times.  We used to ship our cream down that railway for years.”  

Interviewer:  “Would this be every day?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Well, it would run every day, but we’d just ship it twice a week.  You’d have to be out pretty early to catch that train.  We took the cream by horse and buggy.”

Interviewer:  “Did most of the farmers ship cream then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, ’til the creamery opened.  That was before the Shawville creamery opened.”

Part 8

Interviewer:  “Did many people ship their milk or their cream to the cheese factory then, Mr. Brownlee?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, a lot shipped it.”

Interviewer:  “And then they wouldn’t send it down on the railroad?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “No.  We must have shipped for seven or eight years.  It went to the Lily cheese factory.”  

Interviewer:  “That was down by Bob Younge’s.”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Yes, right around across the road from Bob Younge’s.”

Interviewer:  “And do you remember anything, Mr. Brownlee, about the Mike Murphy murders?  Mike Murphy was a gypsy I think.  Was the town quite upset about it then?”

Mr. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes, they were.”

Interviewer:  “And do you, Mrs. Brownlee, remember anything about the Mike Murphy murders?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, I was too young.  I was born in 1900.  I can only remember seeing where these people stayed.  I can remember seeing him.  I remember passing by going to school and church, but I can’t remember much about the time it happened.”

Interviewer:  “Did people think they lived in an unkempt way?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, they lived in sort of a cabin thing, and pulled it around by horses.  But I think the poor lad was harmless, but they were bothering him you know.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything, Mrs. Brownlee, about the household chores at that time, churning…?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Oh, yes, my mother always churned her own butter, made her own bread, even her own soap.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about the making of the soap?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, I remember she made it in a big cooler out in our backyard with a fire underneath it.”

Interviewer:  “Did she make both hard soap and soft soap?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she made both.  We used hard soap for washing dishes and with clothes some, too.  Usually the soft soap she used for clothes.  The soft soap was like a jelly, sort of.”

Interviewer:  “And what would you use for washing your hands?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “She always bought her soap for washing her hands.  I remember she bought a white soap for washing her hands.”

Interviewer:  “And would you make soap several times a year?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Well, no, she always make it in the spring.  And times like when I was small people didn’t have carpets on their floors.  A lot of their kitchen floors were just painted, and we had a lot of scrubbing to do.  And your outside steps or whatever you had, and you used a lot of soap in keeping them clean.  A scrub brush and that soap.”

Interviewer:   “And do you remember about food storage at that time?  Did your parents have a root house?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “My parents had no root house; they had a good basement.  Just an earth floor which was good and cold.   And she kept her food down in it in containers.”

Interviewer:  “Did you salt meat back then?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, they salted it.  They salted their meat in a barrel.  They rolled it in salt, put it in the barrel, and then you’d make a “brime” and poured it over it.  It was what was called a ‘brime.’”  [This is a Scotch form of “brine.”]  “You kept it there until you were going to use it.  And then when you took out a piece, you had to soak it in cold water.  And maybe a couple of waters to bring the salt out before you could eat it.  It still tasted fairly salty.”

Interviewer:  “Did people drink much tea or coffee in those days?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Not so much coffee as they did tea.  But they drank tea, mostly green tea.  Although I remember the black tea when it was used a great deal, too.”

Interviewer:  “When black tea first came in were people unwilling to use it?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Some people were.  Some people wanted the green.  It took a while to get accustomed to it.”

Interviewer:  “Did your mother ever mention using anything else for teas, such as lavador leaves?”  

Mrs. Brownlee:  “No, she never did.  She did mention when she was teaching and places she stayed that they did use it.  It has a very different flavor.”

Interviewer:  “And did your mother pick many berries in the summer?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she picked her berries and put them away, made jelly and preserves.”

Interviewer:  “And she had her basement full of preserves?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, she did.   She always had enough to do her during the winter.”

Interviewer:  “Do you remember anything about the PPJ Railway?  Did you take any trips on it?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, when I was a little girl I remember my first trip.  Quite a thrill.  It went through our farm, the railroad track.  And I remember when I was a little girl being taken to Ottawa.  It was a great thrill, the train ride.  It took quite a while.  I would travel back and forth to Ottawa quite often on the train. We’d go in the morning, go back in the evening.”

Interviewer:  “What do you consider the biggest difference between when you were a little girl and the way it is today?”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “I think time goes faster now.  You don’t have the same time.  But I agree with the modern ways.  I think everything is wonderful now to have all the modern ways, the easy ways of working that we have compared to what we had in our day.  It’s much easier, and I think it’s a wonderful improvement.  I like to see improvement, and I think it’s marvellous.”  

Interviewer:  “There isn’t as much time for reading.”

Mrs. Brownlee:  “Yes, that’s true.  There isn’t as much time now with TV and radio to read; you don’t read as much.  There was good and bad in all times.  There was good and bad in our times just as there is today.  I think everything pretty much balances out.  I think it’s a lot due to the people themselves.”

Interviewer:  “Was there much more hardship in those times?”

Mrs. Brownlee:   “Not so much.  I could never say I had hardship in my young days.  I worked hard, but I could never say I really had anything hard you know.  I enjoyed life, and it was good for us.  I enjoyed sports, and I enjoyed life, and everyone has their ups and downs.”

Interviewer:  “Can you tell me Mr. Brownlee what you consider the biggest change?”

Mr. Brownlee:   “It remains to be seen whether it’s for the better or the worse.  We never know.”

 

Transcription by Sue Lisk